systemd 开发者 Lennart Poettering 在 G+ 喷 Linus 中英对照版
marguerite · marguerite · 2014-10-09 00:09:06 +08:00 · 2330 次点击这是一个创建于 3686 天前的主题，其中的信息可能已经有所发展或是发生改变。
在 G+ 上面看到的年度大戏，独乐乐不如众乐乐...
============ 正文的分割线 ==============
Lennart Poettering 发表于 2 天前（已编辑）
Much of the Open Source community tries to advertise the community as one happy place to the outside. Where contributions are valued only by their technical quality, and everybody meets at conferences for beers.
多数开源社区都试图鼓吹自己为“乐土”。在其中，贡献的估量仅取决于其技术品质，峰会时人人都是”酒友”。
Well, it is not like that. It's quite a sick place to be in.
好么～不是那样子的。这是个耻度很高的地方。
I don't usually talk about this too much, and hence I figure that people are
really not aware of this, but yes, the Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets. I get hate mail for hacking on Open Source. People have started multiple "petitions" on petition web sites, asking me to stop working (google for it). Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!). Just the other day, some idiot posted a "song" on youtube, a creepy work, filled with expletives about me and suggestions of violence. People post websites about boycotting my projects, containing pretty personal attacks. On IRC, people /msg me sometimes, with nasty messages, and references to artwork in 4chan style. And there's more. A lot more.
我不经常爆料的，我发现大家真的没意识到这点，是的，开源社区从不缺混蛋。
我，比起大多数人，可能更容易成为他们最”受宠”的攻击目标。
因为做开源居然有人给我发电邮说恨我。人们在请愿网站发起了许多“请愿”，求我罢手(google 之)。
最近，人们居然开始筹集比特币要雇个打手来揍我（这是真的！）。
就在不久前，有些白痴在油土鳖上传了一首”神曲”，制作简直惊悚，全是骂我的脏话和建议对我施暴的。
人们建立了抵制我的项目的网站，茫茫多的人身攻击呀。
IRC 上面，人们有时也会 /msg（译者注：私聊）我，消息要么脏狗眼，要么是 4chan 风的图片链接。
诸如此类还有更多。更多。
译者注：4chan，美国一个匿名聊天版，经典的反社会、无政府人格集散地。好莱坞女星艳照门首发于此，著名骇客组织 Anonymous 的大本营。
I am used to rough discussions on mailing lists, and yes, when I was younger
I did not always stay technical in flamewars, but nowadays I am pretty good
at that, I am sometimes articulate, but never personal. I have a thick skin
(and so do most of the others involved in systemd, apparently), and I figure
that plays a major role why we managed to bring systemd to success, despite
all the pressure in the opposite direction. But from time to time, I just
have to stand back and say "Wow, what an awful community Linux has!".
我早已习惯了邮件列表上粗鲁的讨论，当我还年轻的时候，“荣辱战”时的我也不总是停留在技术层面的，但我从未人身攻击。我脸皮很厚（显然，多数其它开发 systemd 的也是），我发现这种厚脸皮是我们能顶住负面压力带领 systemd 走向成功的主要因素。但每时每刻，我都得驻足，安慰自己说 ”喔，Linux 社区是有多渣啊！”。
The Internet is full of deranged people, no doubt, so one might just discount
all of this on the grounds that the Open Source community isn't any different
than any other community on the Internet or even offline. But I don't think so. I am pretty sure there are certain things that foster bad behaviour. On one hand there are certain communities where it appears to be a lot more accepted to vent hate, communities that attract a certain kind of people (Hey, Gentoo!) more than others do. (Yes, the folks who post the stuff they do usually pretty clearly state from wich community they come).
无疑，互联网上满满的疯子。所以大家可能会基于开源社区和网上其它社区甚至线下社区无甚区别这一理由对我的遭遇大打折扣。但我不这么想。我非常确定有些特定的事情滋生了这些恶意行为。一方面，某些特定社区看起来更公认是宣泄仇恨的（译者注：比如 anti-GFW），某些特定社区会比其它社区更能吸引某类特定人群（贱兔 Gentoo 莫跑！）(是的，发表那些东西的亲们发表的东西通常就自证了这些人的出处)。
But more importantly, I'd actually put some blame on a certain circle of folks
that play a major role in kernel development, and first and foremost Linus Torvalds himself. By many he is a considered a role model, but he is quite a bad one. If he posts words like "[specific folks] ...should be retroactively aborted. Who the f*ck does idiotic things like that? How did they not die as babies, considering that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?" (google for it), than that's certainly bad. But what I find particularly appalling is the fact that he regularly defends this, and advertises this as an efficient way to run a community. (But it is not just Linus, it's a certain group of people around him who use the exact same style, some of which semi-publically even phantasize about the best ways to, ... well, kill me).
但更重要的是，我要归罪于在内核开发中扮演了主要角色的那一小圈子人。首先就是 Linus Torvalds 自己。
对于许多人来说他是一个道德标兵，但其实他是一个坏分子。如果他能发出像这样的文字如“[某些特定人群]...应该‘早死早超生’。谁做出这种傻 B 事来的？他们婴儿时期怎么就没死呢，你看他们都傻到找不到乳头来吃奶。”，（Google 搜之），那么他肯定是缺德带冒烟的了。让我尤为惊悚的是这一事实：他经常辩护，并且鼓吹说这是一种有效的运作社区的方式。（但不只是 Linus，他身边一小撮人都是雷同风格，其中的一些甚至呓语说这是最好的方式来...好么，杀了我吧）。
But no, it's not an efficient way to run a community. If Linux had success,
then that certainly happened despite, not because of this behaviour.
I am pretty sure the damage being done by this is quite obvious, it not only
sours the tone in the Linux community, it is also teaches new contributors
to adopt the same style, but that only if it doesn't scare them away in the
first place.
但是，不，这不是一个有效的运作社区的方式。如果 Linux 是成功的，那肯定不是由于这种行为让它成功的。
我很确定，这种行为的危害是很明显的，它不但改变了 Linux 社区的调调，还会言传身教让新贡献者浸淫于相同风格，但后者仅当新贡献者没有第一眼就被吓跑的时候才会发生。
In other words: A fish rots from the head down.
换句话说：上梁不正下梁歪。
I don't mind using strong language, I don't mind the use of words such as
"fuck", I use the word all the time too, it's really not about that. I must
simply say that I wished it would stay at that, because what actually is
happening is so much worse, and and so much more hateful.
我不介意用词激烈，我也不介意用”操”这样的文字，我也总是说“操”，问题真不在这儿。简单说我真希望情况能就停留在”操”的阶段啊，因为实际上正在发生的比那更恶劣更可憎的。
If you are a newcomer to Linux, either grow a really thick skin. Or run away,
it's not a friendly place to be in. It is sad that it is that way, but
it certainly is.
若君新到宝地，要么给脸皮垫硅胶，要么快跑，这不是个友爱的地方。很悲伤它这样，但它就是这样。
The Linux community is dominated by western, white, straight, males in their
30s and 40s these days. I perfectly fit in that pattern, and the rubbish they
pour over me is awful. I can only imagine that it is much worse for members
of minorities, or people from different cultural backgrounds, in particular
ones where losing face is a major issue.
Linux 社区现在由西方 30~40 岁的白种直男统御着。我也挺套这个模板的啊，但他们泼我那身翔真是酸爽。
现在我只能想想那些来自少数族裔或者不同文化背景尤其是那些失节事大的文化的人的遭遇聊以自慰啦。
You know, I can deal with all this shit, and I guess in a way with the energy
we are pushing the changes we propose with we are calling for opposition, so
this post is really not intended to be a call for sympathy. The main point I
want to make with this is to correct a few things about our communities, and
how their are percieved. Open Source isn't a kindergarten. Open Source is
awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this.
你懂得，我无所谓，我猜我们促成我们提出的那些变化的能量对反对者也是一道鲨鱼见血般的美餐，所以咯，这篇文也真不是博同情的。我的主要目的是为了纠正我们社区中的一些现象，以及这些现象是怎么被我感知到的。
开源不是幼儿园（译者注：现在幼儿园也有砍人的了）。开源在许多方面都很吓人，人们应该认识到这点。
Not everybody in the Linux community is like this, the vast majority isn't.
Not even all our different communities really have a problem with this at all.
But many do, and the most prominent one, the Linux community as a whole
certainly has.
Linux 社区中不是每个人都喜欢这样的，最广大人民群众就不喜欢。甚至不同社区也不都会有这些问题。
但许多都有，而且最突出的那个，作为整体的 Linux 社区是肯定有这些问题的。
I am not the one to fix any of this, I cannot tell you how one could do it.
And quite frankly, I really don't want to be involved in fixing this. I am
a technical guy, I want to do technical things.
我不是救世的那位，这里面的任何一个问题我都解决不了，我也告诉不了你你该怎么办。
挺坦诚地说，我也真的不想要泥足深陷去解决这些问题。
我是一个技术帝，我就爱写码。
My personal conclusion out of all this is mostly just that I don't want to
have much to do with the worst offenders, and the communities they run.
My involvement with the kernel community ended pretty much before it even
started, I never post on LKML, and haven't done in years. Also, in our
own project we are policying posts. We regularly put a few folks on
moderation on the mailing list, and we will continue to do so. Currently,
the systemd community is fantastic, and I really hope we can keep it that way.
我的个人结论是我不想与那些罪大恶极的坏分子和他们运作的社区牵涉太多。我与内核社区的牵扯在没开始前就结束了，我从不在 LKML（译者注：Linux 内核邮件列表）发言，好多年没做了。
我们自己的项目会管控言论，我们定期会让一些人做纠察，而且会继续这么做。
目前，systemd 社区血统很纯，我真希望我们能保持优良传统呀。
And that's all about this topic from me. I have no intentions to ever talk
about this again on a public forum.
以上就是全部我想八的。我无意再在公共论坛说这个了。
============ 正文的分割线 ==============
Lennart Poettering 发表于 2 天前（已编辑）
Much of the Open Source community tries to advertise the community as one happy place to the outside. Where contributions are valued only by their technical quality, and everybody meets at conferences for beers.
多数开源社区都试图鼓吹自己为“乐土”。在其中，贡献的估量仅取决于其技术品质，峰会时人人都是”酒友”。
Well, it is not like that. It's quite a sick place to be in.
好么～不是那样子的。这是个耻度很高的地方。
I don't usually talk about this too much, and hence I figure that people are
really not aware of this, but yes, the Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets. I get hate mail for hacking on Open Source. People have started multiple "petitions" on petition web sites, asking me to stop working (google for it). Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me (this really happened!). Just the other day, some idiot posted a "song" on youtube, a creepy work, filled with expletives about me and suggestions of violence. People post websites about boycotting my projects, containing pretty personal attacks. On IRC, people /msg me sometimes, with nasty messages, and references to artwork in 4chan style. And there's more. A lot more.
我不经常爆料的，我发现大家真的没意识到这点，是的，开源社区从不缺混蛋。
我，比起大多数人，可能更容易成为他们最”受宠”的攻击目标。
因为做开源居然有人给我发电邮说恨我。人们在请愿网站发起了许多“请愿”，求我罢手(google 之)。
最近，人们居然开始筹集比特币要雇个打手来揍我（这是真的！）。
就在不久前，有些白痴在油土鳖上传了一首”神曲”，制作简直惊悚，全是骂我的脏话和建议对我施暴的。
人们建立了抵制我的项目的网站，茫茫多的人身攻击呀。
IRC 上面，人们有时也会 /msg（译者注：私聊）我，消息要么脏狗眼，要么是 4chan 风的图片链接。
诸如此类还有更多。更多。
译者注：4chan，美国一个匿名聊天版，经典的反社会、无政府人格集散地。好莱坞女星艳照门首发于此，著名骇客组织 Anonymous 的大本营。
I am used to rough discussions on mailing lists, and yes, when I was younger
I did not always stay technical in flamewars, but nowadays I am pretty good
at that, I am sometimes articulate, but never personal. I have a thick skin
(and so do most of the others involved in systemd, apparently), and I figure
that plays a major role why we managed to bring systemd to success, despite
all the pressure in the opposite direction. But from time to time, I just
have to stand back and say "Wow, what an awful community Linux has!".
我早已习惯了邮件列表上粗鲁的讨论，当我还年轻的时候，“荣辱战”时的我也不总是停留在技术层面的，但我从未人身攻击。我脸皮很厚（显然，多数其它开发 systemd 的也是），我发现这种厚脸皮是我们能顶住负面压力带领 systemd 走向成功的主要因素。但每时每刻，我都得驻足，安慰自己说 ”喔，Linux 社区是有多渣啊！”。
The Internet is full of deranged people, no doubt, so one might just discount
all of this on the grounds that the Open Source community isn't any different
than any other community on the Internet or even offline. But I don't think so. I am pretty sure there are certain things that foster bad behaviour. On one hand there are certain communities where it appears to be a lot more accepted to vent hate, communities that attract a certain kind of people (Hey, Gentoo!) more than others do. (Yes, the folks who post the stuff they do usually pretty clearly state from wich community they come).
无疑，互联网上满满的疯子。所以大家可能会基于开源社区和网上其它社区甚至线下社区无甚区别这一理由对我的遭遇大打折扣。但我不这么想。我非常确定有些特定的事情滋生了这些恶意行为。一方面，某些特定社区看起来更公认是宣泄仇恨的（译者注：比如 anti-GFW），某些特定社区会比其它社区更能吸引某类特定人群（贱兔 Gentoo 莫跑！）(是的，发表那些东西的亲们发表的东西通常就自证了这些人的出处)。
But more importantly, I'd actually put some blame on a certain circle of folks
that play a major role in kernel development, and first and foremost Linus Torvalds himself. By many he is a considered a role model, but he is quite a bad one. If he posts words like "[specific folks] ...should be retroactively aborted. Who the f*ck does idiotic things like that? How did they not die as babies, considering that they were likely too stupid to find a tit to suck on?" (google for it), than that's certainly bad. But what I find particularly appalling is the fact that he regularly defends this, and advertises this as an efficient way to run a community. (But it is not just Linus, it's a certain group of people around him who use the exact same style, some of which semi-publically even phantasize about the best ways to, ... well, kill me).
但更重要的是，我要归罪于在内核开发中扮演了主要角色的那一小圈子人。首先就是 Linus Torvalds 自己。
对于许多人来说他是一个道德标兵，但其实他是一个坏分子。如果他能发出像这样的文字如“[某些特定人群]...应该‘早死早超生’。谁做出这种傻 B 事来的？他们婴儿时期怎么就没死呢，你看他们都傻到找不到乳头来吃奶。”，（Google 搜之），那么他肯定是缺德带冒烟的了。让我尤为惊悚的是这一事实：他经常辩护，并且鼓吹说这是一种有效的运作社区的方式。（但不只是 Linus，他身边一小撮人都是雷同风格，其中的一些甚至呓语说这是最好的方式来...好么，杀了我吧）。
But no, it's not an efficient way to run a community. If Linux had success,
then that certainly happened despite, not because of this behaviour.
I am pretty sure the damage being done by this is quite obvious, it not only
sours the tone in the Linux community, it is also teaches new contributors
to adopt the same style, but that only if it doesn't scare them away in the
first place.
但是，不，这不是一个有效的运作社区的方式。如果 Linux 是成功的，那肯定不是由于这种行为让它成功的。
我很确定，这种行为的危害是很明显的，它不但改变了 Linux 社区的调调，还会言传身教让新贡献者浸淫于相同风格，但后者仅当新贡献者没有第一眼就被吓跑的时候才会发生。
In other words: A fish rots from the head down.
换句话说：上梁不正下梁歪。
I don't mind using strong language, I don't mind the use of words such as
"fuck", I use the word all the time too, it's really not about that. I must
simply say that I wished it would stay at that, because what actually is
happening is so much worse, and and so much more hateful.
我不介意用词激烈，我也不介意用”操”这样的文字，我也总是说“操”，问题真不在这儿。简单说我真希望情况能就停留在”操”的阶段啊，因为实际上正在发生的比那更恶劣更可憎的。
If you are a newcomer to Linux, either grow a really thick skin. Or run away,
it's not a friendly place to be in. It is sad that it is that way, but
it certainly is.
若君新到宝地，要么给脸皮垫硅胶，要么快跑，这不是个友爱的地方。很悲伤它这样，但它就是这样。
The Linux community is dominated by western, white, straight, males in their
30s and 40s these days. I perfectly fit in that pattern, and the rubbish they
pour over me is awful. I can only imagine that it is much worse for members
of minorities, or people from different cultural backgrounds, in particular
ones where losing face is a major issue.
Linux 社区现在由西方 30~40 岁的白种直男统御着。我也挺套这个模板的啊，但他们泼我那身翔真是酸爽。
现在我只能想想那些来自少数族裔或者不同文化背景尤其是那些失节事大的文化的人的遭遇聊以自慰啦。
You know, I can deal with all this shit, and I guess in a way with the energy
we are pushing the changes we propose with we are calling for opposition, so
this post is really not intended to be a call for sympathy. The main point I
want to make with this is to correct a few things about our communities, and
how their are percieved. Open Source isn't a kindergarten. Open Source is
awful in many ways, and people should be aware of this.
你懂得，我无所谓，我猜我们促成我们提出的那些变化的能量对反对者也是一道鲨鱼见血般的美餐，所以咯，这篇文也真不是博同情的。我的主要目的是为了纠正我们社区中的一些现象，以及这些现象是怎么被我感知到的。
开源不是幼儿园（译者注：现在幼儿园也有砍人的了）。开源在许多方面都很吓人，人们应该认识到这点。
Not everybody in the Linux community is like this, the vast majority isn't.
Not even all our different communities really have a problem with this at all.
But many do, and the most prominent one, the Linux community as a whole
certainly has.
Linux 社区中不是每个人都喜欢这样的，最广大人民群众就不喜欢。甚至不同社区也不都会有这些问题。
但许多都有，而且最突出的那个，作为整体的 Linux 社区是肯定有这些问题的。
I am not the one to fix any of this, I cannot tell you how one could do it.
And quite frankly, I really don't want to be involved in fixing this. I am
a technical guy, I want to do technical things.
我不是救世的那位，这里面的任何一个问题我都解决不了，我也告诉不了你你该怎么办。
挺坦诚地说，我也真的不想要泥足深陷去解决这些问题。
我是一个技术帝，我就爱写码。
My personal conclusion out of all this is mostly just that I don't want to
have much to do with the worst offenders, and the communities they run.
My involvement with the kernel community ended pretty much before it even
started, I never post on LKML, and haven't done in years. Also, in our
own project we are policying posts. We regularly put a few folks on
moderation on the mailing list, and we will continue to do so. Currently,
the systemd community is fantastic, and I really hope we can keep it that way.
我的个人结论是我不想与那些罪大恶极的坏分子和他们运作的社区牵涉太多。我与内核社区的牵扯在没开始前就结束了，我从不在 LKML（译者注：Linux 内核邮件列表）发言，好多年没做了。
我们自己的项目会管控言论，我们定期会让一些人做纠察，而且会继续这么做。
目前，systemd 社区血统很纯，我真希望我们能保持优良传统呀。
And that's all about this topic from me. I have no intentions to ever talk
about this again on a public forum.
以上就是全部我想八的。我无意再在公共论坛说这个了。
 |
1
lcj2class 2014-10-09 00:36:02 +08:00 via Android
看到一半我就想到了王垠大神以前说的为什么辞职google，牛叉人的想法，吾等小辈只能望洋兴叹
|
 |
2
riaqn 2014-10-09 06:38:35 +08:00
hitman 不是打手，是杀手
|
 |
3
Havee 2014-10-09 07:21:50 +08:00
发现我也好久没去linux社区晃荡了。实话说，技术粉跟风群喷的时候，跟其他粉没有任何区别
话说回来，真的不喜systemd啊，gentoo中一直没切换到systemd的人路过... |
 |
4
bcxx 2014-10-09 09:11:14 +08:00
这奇葩也想预先占领道德高地啊 O.O
|
 |
5
P013onEr 2014-10-09 11:34:39 +08:00
a technical guy, I want to do technical things.
我是一个技术帝，我就爱写码。 233333... |
 |
6
jiang42 2014-10-09 16:37:51 +08:00
笑开了花
|
Select Language